ISP's want pay-per-usage

[skyvalleyradio]

From today's "Globe & Mail" - 'Report On Business':


Dogged by costs, Internet providers seek price hikes

CATHERINE MCLEAN

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

June 13, 2007 at 4:30 AM EDT

TORONTO — The Internet is one of the fastest growing businesses for telecommunications companies, but they say they need to raise prices to offset the hefty investments required by the network, which is increasingly used for much more than sending e-mails and surfing the Web.

If phone companies proceed with such changes, consumers could start paying for the exact amount and kinds of content they use on the Internet, a big shift away from the traditional, all-you-can-eat plans. Those who just send a few e-mails may end up paying less. Consumers who download and send a lot of videos, however, may face far bigger bills. Canadians now pay for different levels of Internet speeds.

* Would pay-what-you-use service rates cost you more or less? Answer the poll question at Globetechnology.com

Canada's biggest Internet service providers, including Bell Canada and Telus Corp. argued yesterday that new business models are necessary as users increasingly listen to music and watch videos online. Bell, for example, said its Sympatico Internet network usage has jumped 30 per cent annually over the past three years. At Telus, the volume for each Internet subscriber has doubled in the past year.

To keep pace with the increase in traffic, not to mention cable operators' speedier Internet services, the phone companies must keep upgrading their networks in order to provide enough capacity for these bandwidth-hungry applications. It's a very expensive endeavour. Vancouver-based Telus, for example, announced last September that it would spend $600-million to bring fibre-optic cables closer to customers' homes through 2009.

"What folks have to realize is the Internet is unbelievably expensive to maintain," John Watson, president of consumer solutions at Telus, said at the 2007 Canadian Telecom Summit yesterday in Toronto.

But others strongly believe Internet service providers don't have the right to change their pricing models. One side of the "network neutrality" debate believes the Internet should continue to be completely open, and that Internet service providers, who control access, shouldn't make changes, including favouring certain websites over others.

The companies, however, say consumers are using their costly networks in order to access applications for which the companies receive little or no money. "I'm troubled every idea we have as a business to rebalance consumption and cost to deliver a better ROI [return on investment] is seen as a crime and attack against neutrality," Mr. Watson said.

He wants to switch to a model that's more like wireless pricing, where people pay by the amount and kinds of applications they use.

Network neutrality is not the only issue that Telus is weighing when it comes to future investments. It doesn't want to spend a lot of money upgrading only to be forced to resell its Internet service to competitors. It currently has to do so, a move that helps spur greater competition in the market.

While Telus plans to conduct a technical trial this year of fibre-to-the-home technology, it will take a slow approach. "We won't go ahead if we're forced through regulatory bodies to offer resale on it," Mr. Watson said in a later interview.

[Mike Cleaver]

ISP's such as Shaw and Telus, the only ones available to the average British Columbian, are making a killing.
Internet is only a part of their business.
Someone should ask to see useage stats for the average internet subscriber.
They're paying the same freight as someone who uses torrents and on-line gaming.
Both Shaw and Telus are starting to crack down on heavy users and are throttling download speeds for torrents and other high bandwidth activities.
They're also threatening to charge if you go over their ridiculous caps for up/downloads.
I've been threatened by both for over-use and cancelled Shaw when they arbitrarily disconnected me.
In other parts of the country, you have more choices.
Usually, internet access is cheaper in Ontario and Quebec and you have choices where you can move to a provider who has higher speeds, higher down and upload limits and some with no limits at all.
Customer service here is a joke when you have questions about your service.
They usually tell you to reboot or disconnect and reconnect your modem.
They won't admit to problems in your area and can give no reason for sudden drops in speed.
The average and below average subscribers use very little bandwidth which is more dollars into the provider's pockets and yet they still want to bill people who use over their ridiculously low caps or throttle speeds on what they consider to be illegal content.
What's needed is more competition, preferably run by people who understand the internet and all the uses to which it can be put.

[jon]

Anyone tried Rogers High Speed Wireless Internet? $50/month for unlimited usage. And, its portable.

[skyvalleyradio]

Mike - some good points! I purposely chose Telus' "enhanced hi-speed" service to increase my monthly bandwidth allotment to 60GB/month as opposed to the 20GB/month with their regular hi-speed service. this is to accommodate my 24/7 webcast stream which was 56K. We've just moved to a UK stream-host and are now transmitting at 64K stereo. Sky Valley Radio gobbles up approx 21-23GB/month of my usage. Telus is making plenty of profit without resorting to such pay-as-you-go tactics and I am familiarizing myself with the CRTC intervention process in order to file an intervention when such applications take place. I have also contacted other Canadian webcasters to rally some support for objections to this proposal. Time will tell whether I can even remain on air - I may have to resort to tactics such as asking for listener contributions ($$$$) or possibly 'signing off' overnight to conserve bandwidth. I refuse to reduce my stream bitrate quality and wish I could go to 128K but could never afford THAT! An increase in my Telus bill is affordable to me now (reluctantly) but I want to retire in a few years & would like to keep my non-profit hobby station on air

Jon - I wish I had some options such as Rogers, but in a rural area such as the Gulf Islands, my only choices are Shaw & Telus. ("no...don't Telus")

[jon]

I just checked a friend's address on Salt Spring Island, and the Rogers "Availability Tool" said "Maybe", so it might be worth giving them a call.

Some areas require an outdoor antenna.

[Mike Cleaver]

Last time I looked, a couple of months ago, the Rogers Wireless service was abysmally slow.
I'm on 1.5 from Telus now.
Netscape MAY be available here.
They have a similar service to Telus but with ulimited downloads.

[skyvalleyradio]

I just checked a friend's address on Salt Spring Island, and the Rogers "Availability Tool" said "Maybe", so it might be worth giving them a call.

Telus and Shaw's service. is like that here too Jon. I have neighbours that are stuck with Telus dial-up becasue there are limited lines in some of the more remote parts of Salt Spring Is. When I called Rogers & gave them my address, they said NOT available - I live in a fairly remote part of the island so it may take awhile for Rogers to access my area.

Some areas require an outdoor antenna.

ANOTHER antenna!! Geez Jon - I already have 4 towers on the property and they're all getting pretty full (groan) "Honey, call the backhoe service...we need to dig another big hole "

[jon]

Last time I looked, a couple of months ago, the Rogers Wireless service was abysmally slow.

Rogers offers two levels of service. The $50/month one I was referring to is the faster of the two, at 1.5 Mbps download and 256 Kbps upload.

There is also a $25/month version with only 128 kbps download and 64 kbps upload.

[jon]

After Bell and Shaw dropped out of the satellite Internet market, the CRTC has allowed at least one two-way (i.e. - no phone line required) U.S. satellite Internet service. High speed, but pricey last time I checked.

My friend on Salt Spring found that if he kept phoning TELUS every week or two, he finally got an ADSL line -- they seemingly do actually do anything with their wait list. He also told me that Shaw didn't offer service there, as there was a local cable company. Is that still true?

And, if you have access to TELUS ADSL, can't you go with some of the companies that are high speed ISP's in their own right, but use TELUS ADSL as their backbone?

[Mike Cleaver]

Theoretically, Telus is obliged to offer it's backbone to other internet providers.
The last time I checked, there were no third party services available in Vancouver.
TekkSavy out of Ontario has been trying to get into western Canada but Telus keeps fending them off.
They did offer to connect me but the phone company wants a 100 dollar set up charge and they'd have to charge higher than their Ontario-Quebec rate to provide service here.
The webside canadianisp.com is a joke.
It lists services supposedly available in Canadian cities but it's woefully inaccurate, especially when it comes to Vancouver.
If you want the low-down on Canadian ISPs, go here: http://www.dslreports.com/forums/all
I want a high speed (5meg) download DSL with reasonable upload speeds and no cap for a reasonable price.
Tekksavy offers that in Ontario and Quebec and wants to offer it here.
Telus is dragging it's feet because it knows internet savvy people will drop Telus like a hot potato if Teksavvy service becomes available here.
And they have tech support staff who actually know what they're talking about and are extremely helpful in getting you what you pay for.

[skyvalleyradio]

My friend on Salt Spring found that if he kept phoning TELUS every week or two, he finally got an ADSL line -- they seemingly do actually do anything with their wait list. He also told me that Shaw didn't offer service there, as there was a local cable company. Is that still true?


thats what I and a few of my neighbours had to do to get Telus hi-speed line into our neighbourhood. We called them WEEKLY! Even then they said there were only 14 slots avaialble & these have all been snapped up. The neighbour that lives next to me can't get Telus hi-speed but DID get it eventually when Shaw bought out locally owned Salt Spring Cablevision a few years back. Shaw Cable is not avaialble on all parts of Salt Spring however. BTW, I found that Telus DOESN'T respond to the "waiting list" which I was on forever waiting & waiting & waiting

And, if you have access to TELUS ADSL, can't you go with some of the companies that are high speed ISP's in their own right, but use TELUS ADSL as their backbone?[/quote]

I could do that Jon but I am still faced with the Telus proposal that started this thread - a pay-for-usage bandwidth charge much like cell-phone usage where you're charged for the calls you make & your usage time. Another ISP would simply tack on the usage charge that they would be required to pay Telus. In the end, i still would have to pay for the 21-24GB/month upload charge to run Sky Valley Radio 24/7 (can't give an exact figure since we just upped our bitrate from 56K stereo to 64K stereo with a new stream-host). My beef is that I am already paying for their "Enhanced Hi-Speed" service in order to have a 60GB/month usage cap instead of the 20GB for 'regular' hi-speed customers. If Telus is whining so loudly about bandwidth usage costs, why did they up everybody's cap 3 years ago? Hi-speed ADSL went from 10GB/month to 20GB/month and enhanced service from 40GB to 60GB/month. I smell a money grab. Mike Cleaver makes some good arguments about rate reductions for those that aren't bandwidth pigs like me. Isn't that what the Telus & Shaw "Lite" packages are supposed to be for?

[jon]

I am still faced with the Telus proposal that started this thread - a pay-for-usage bandwidth charge

Actually, you wouldn't be, because TELUS only provides the ADSL line for third-party ISPs, not the Internet access.

I finally checked the folks I was thinking of, and they are still in business, though under a new name. As you may know, Compusmart is going out of business, and, until recently, also owned an ISP. Details at http://www.uniserve.com/products/highspeed/interbaun/ As I said, they use TELUS as the ADSL backbone, but run their own mail servers, Internet gateway, etc.

Actually, the cable companies have a much worse record than the telcos for NOT allowing ISPs to use their high speed networks as backbones. The CRTC ordered both telcos and cable companies to offer their backbones at reasonable prices to other ISPs back in the mid-1990s.

By the way, I'm quite happy with Shaw Internet, and just switched to Shaw Phone. The latter has been working fine, but it was a real headache getting it up and running. Most of the problem is that Shaw never bothered to learn the fundamentals of the phone business, deciding instead to outsource most of the Admin to Bell, especially the communication with other telcos. I can now proudly say that my home is "almost" TELUS-free. I actually own three TELUS Mobility Pay and Talk accounts, because they are just so cheap and reliable.

[skyvalleyradio]

Uniserve has some interesting looking packages - a little more expensive than Telus for my particular needs. Nonetheless, it's opened my eyes to looking at alternatives should Telus decide to jack up my rate. I'm in year #2 of a 3-year Telus plan so I'll have a clearer picture of future costs for a suitable ISP.

[jon]

My mother's Yak bill just arrived with a page advertising Yak High Speed Internet at 5Mbps (download) for $34.95 per month. Phone 1-800-490-7235 to determine if you are in the coverage area. Salt Spring Island, in your case, skyvalleyradio. Likely, given that their long distance was originally (presume it still is) done by buying capacity from TELUS.

Yak has also introduced Home Phone and Mobile, which are local phone line ($34.95 including Voice Mail) and cell phone services, respectively. And a new unlimited long distance package, actually two of them, $17.99 for U.S./Canada and $29.99 for 30 countries.

Both RadioFan and I have lots of experience with Yak, and are probably the best of the "no hidden fees" long distance services. Radiofan has since switched to Vonage. And I've recently switched to Shaw Lite Home Phone.

[skyvalleyradio]

thanks Jon - the most important criteria for me isn't download speed, but upload speed and stability.