CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

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CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby jon » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:37 pm

In response to the CRTC Commercial Radio Policy Review call for interventions, the Canadian Association of Broadcasters was polite, but they sure came out against the implementation of HD Radio in Canada:
  • No Business Case
  • Interference is a huge issue
They also pointed out that car makers in Canada have not embraced HD. Canada's top 6 sales leaders are Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet, Hyundai, Honda and Dodge. Only two of them offer ANY HD Radio products in Canada, and other sources state that HD is only offered in higher-end models. Another two only offer HD in the U.S. And the remaining two do not currently offer HD in either country.

As for Interference, they were totally dismissive of HD Radio on AM in a "Too much interference. End of discussion" brevity. On FM, they cited the example of RED-FM needing repeaters in Surrey and Abbotsford thanks to adjacent channel KISM-FM going to HD Radio.

On the Business Case side, CAB concluded that HD Radio is doomed to failure thanks to the Internet-based "Connected Cars" technology, and the rich set of entertainment planned for delivery, that is being fast tracked by car makers.

So what is so different about Canada's FM usage that makes HD more of a problem here than the U.S.? Here is the CAB answer:
In some areas, Canadian stations may have a greater challenge because of the number of short spaced stations utilizing directional antenna patterns. Canada also differs from the US in that 3rd adjacent stations are permitted in the same market, which may introduce intermodulation products affecting other stations or navigation frequencies

The entire CAB submission on HD Radio is here: https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/DocWebB ... ID=2067969
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby Eldon-Mr.CFAY » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:18 pm

Greetings Everyone,
Well I am sure glad to hear that. I absolutely hate HD Radio or IBOC , creates a lot of interference on the AM Band in the USA from some of the stations that use it. Glad to hear that Jon. Good for the CAB which I don't always agree on!!! Sure agree with this though.

73s Take Care, Eldon
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby Aaron » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 pm

Agree with this fully.

Had this been adopted a decade ago, before situations like 98.7/99.1 Toronto and 94.5/94.9 Ottawa were allowed to be created, and had the CRTC allowed new, open content on the sub-channels, it could have worked.

Not now.
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby jon » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:39 pm

Aaron wrote:Had this been adopted a decade ago, before situations like 98.7/99.1 Toronto and 94.5/94.9 Ottawa were allowed to be created, and had the CRTC allowed new, open content on the sub-channels, it could have worked.

In my intervention, I pointed out that any approach to HD Radio that I've heard of always includes the current owner of the analogue station also owning the HD channels for that frequency. A kind of back door around the 2 FMs per major market rule.

Add that to the interference issue and we would have less frequencies on the air today, meaning fewer owners and more "stations" if HD channels become stations as seems likely if every radio was an HD Radio.

If we turn the clock back 15-20 years, about the only way that I see Digital Radio working well in Canada is if the U.S. had also gone with Eureka 147 as Canada did at the time. I don't remember the details now, but I think the U.S. military had reserved the necessary spectrum.

Because of the importance of vehicle listening, I have to agree with the CAB that unless there is suddenly a huge roadblock stopping "Internet in every car", it will run over HD Radio and leave it in the dust. As a recent article in Barron's pointed out, vehicle electronics technology is laid out almost 5 years in advance by car manufacturers. And Internet in the car is only two model years away for most brands.

To state the obvious, HD Radio may still fall flat on its face in the U.S. Of course, so could "Internet in every car", though it seems much less likely given how closely it follows the smartphone/tablet popularity.

There actually is one competitive technology that has a hope of beating "Internet in the car". And that is satellite radio with both satellites in the sky and terrestrial transmitters in major markets. I don't know enough about their technology though to know if they have the bandwidth to handle the volume of data.

Wireless carriers, of course, could kill "Internet in the car". People gladly pay $85 a month for their smartphone/tablet wireless package, but they are not going to pay another $85 for their vehicle's Internet service. Hard to believe that car makers could not cut a deal with all the wireless carriers to make all this work.
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby Mike Cleaver » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:15 am

Plain and simple, IBOC is crap, technically speaking.
It has loads of problems, the interference mentioned and the poor sound quality.
Plus, most stations won't want to spend the extra money implementing it.
They don't want to spend money on anything.
Again, the problem is no receivers, the same as it was with DAB here in Canada.
Oh sure, they're putting it in some cars but AM, FM, Satellite and Digital radio will all be supplanted by internet access in vehicles, already here with smart phones, etc.
Has anyone in Canada seen an IBOC radio for sale, a portable, a table model, a multi-media receiver that includes it or even an after market car radio that includes IBOC?
The system only is used in the States.
Digital radio elsewhere uses two other band spectrums and is successful in Europe and Asia.
Those band spectrum are unavailable in the US, owned by the military.
Any system that is not universal and compatible, ie: AM and FM and Digital anywhere else, will not fly with the general public.
Americans driving here find their IBOC radios useless unless they are very close to the border.
Industry Canada gave approval to Canadian stations several years ago to experiment with IBOC.
I know of only two in eastern Canada that have put in the equipment.
I assume the only receivers are in those stations or maybe the chief engineers (if they have one) car.
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby tuned » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:28 am

The net is going to built into all vehicles within five years. It's already there via a smartphones so it seems pointless to try and implement this in 2014.
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby pave » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:11 am

"Radio" is still working under the impression that it is unique - in some way.

However, with every passing moment, radio become no more than another source of audio on a questionable platform - and not a very desirable one, either.

This is what happens when arrogance, ignorance and a delusional state get together, and agree with each other. :tonguewaving:
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby skyvalleyradio » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:14 pm

Adding to all of Mike's excellent points - HBOC will NOT work serving the vasts regions of Canada with sparse population, in particular the far north. In fact, CBC's current move to replace it's northern AM signals with FM also has resulted in diminished coverage north of 60 degrees. CBC should be using high- power (100 kW - 200 kW) analogue AM to cover this area.
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Re: CAB Blasts HD Radio in CRTC Intervention

Postby Eldon-Mr.CFAY » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:23 pm

Greetings,
Completely agree with you on that Sky Valley!!! CBC should use high power AM to cover vast regions of Northern Canada! HD Radio on AM in the USA is a disaster with many many people not liking it at all!!!

73s Eldon
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