No one catering to boomers

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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby hagopian » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:51 pm

Corporate thugs.

Well said. All of the folks that KNOW how to deliver this audience have long been turfed and we have some real bright lights running the Stations now.

Get ready for more pain and stupidity.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby pave » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:12 pm

Actually, hag, I would challenge the contention that even those who have been turfed - the higher priced and creative elements - would be able to truly "deliver" this (Boomer) or any other audience.

"Personality" while a significantly important factor, would not, I submit, do much more than create a slightly more interesting radio environment. But, not enough to generate a mind-blowing set of boxcar numbers. That's the next level of broadcasting.... which has yet to be implemented and was never available even back in the day. The day, by the way, when all there was... was the radio.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby Bigbangboom » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:27 pm

Soooo... If you can see the light nobody else can Pave, why don't you make this happen?
The question was begged.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby Tom Jeffries » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:34 pm

All interesting input. I think, sadly, Pave, you are right. I am not sure we have the energy needed to take it to the next level. The knowledge is there, but, we are not able to handle life and death 24/7 radio, anymore.
So - this crazy business will morph and we will be voyeurs.
We had our time and I guess it’s over. I still think older listeners are valuable - and besides younger demos, radio is NOTHING to them.
It is interesting, if perplexing.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby pave » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:31 pm

I will respond to both Tom and Bbb here.

I know, Tom. People within the industry are exhausted and frustrated to extremes. Going to the "next level" will require a whole new set of skills and mindsets - understandings about how to communicate effectively through this medium. I appreciate how so few - if any - are really up for it, especially if the rewards are phrased as "definite maybes" and "down the road".

As to Bbb's fair and pertinent question. I don't do it myself because, while I have the education, knowledge and experience to do so, it is still incumbent on ownership and management to a.) Realize there is a need for something important to be done. and, b.) Be willing to engage an individual who is not part of the tribe and who rejects The Dogma to deliver the training.

I learned and tested the techniques and methodologies I am prepared to deliver for about 12 years on-the-air and continued to apply them in commercial production. Tom was close by for much of that time and can attest to the on-air results. (This began about 14 years after doing radio, pretty much, the same as everybody else -with talent, whatever acquired skills, professionalism and enthusiasm.) Afterwards, those same techniques and methodologies were applied during my time as a counsellor and coach, which continues to this day.

Meanwhile, both of those (above) are not small requirements to satisfy before embarking on a program of massive improvement and development. Many managers and programmers are still working on the premise that all that is really missing is the application of more and better sales techniques. This is the case with corporate radio here (Canada), and even more so with the mega-glut radio corporations in the U.S.

A reminder here: The percentage of revenue held aside for R&D - the training of programming and commercial writing staff is zero. Even as I have been campaigning for massive improvement for years and even as the need for such improvement is greater now than ever, those who are desperately needing these services remain... silent... and stuck.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby Bigbangboom » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:27 pm

pave wrote:As to Bbb's fair and pertinent question. I don't do it myself because, while I have the education, knowledge and experience to do so, it is still incumbent on ownership and management to a.) Realize there is a need for something important to be done. and, b.) Be willing to engage an individual who is not part of the tribe and who rejects The Dogma to deliver the training.


I see. You dare not take the risk of failure. Clearly you think very highly of your abilities, talent and knowledge, but you are unwilling to put them to the test in a "risk" situation - unless you can do it with unbridled OPM.

I get it - but you should avoid criticizing those that currently walk several steps ahead of your shoes (aka - the ones that choose to take said risk).
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby pave » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:15 pm

With respect, Bbb, you presume too much.
In a few paragraphs (above) I have not told the complete story or revealed my experiences or what I have done - all at my own risk.
Nor have I revealed the price I have paid for refusing to crumble under management pressures. Nor have I revealed the actual costs of my education.

If, however, someone is looking for a "freebie", they can approach somebody...anybody else. Last time I looked, Radio was still a business. A shabby business, to be sure, but a business nevertheless. Even the janitorial staff gets paid. Further, I have already proven the principles, techniques and methodologies - all at my expense. This, while generating huge coin for my employers.

I urge anyone to please keep that in mind when making judgments on extremely limited evidence. So, no - you do not get it - at all.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby Bigbangboom » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:14 pm

"Greater than thou" attitudes have taken many down.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby pave » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:03 am

In other words, you have no response containing any content.
But, since we're at it, let's also consider: Better educated than thou, more experienced than thou, a greater set of broadcast skills than thou and a greater litany of successes than thou.
There are others, but I wouldn't want to project any aura of arrogance.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby Bigbangboom » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:43 am

pave wrote:?..but I wouldn't want to project any aura of arrogance.


That bag was checked at the door several years ago.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby pave » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:28 am

There now. Isn't that better? There is something on which we agree.

Meanwhile, drawing and holding a Boomer-audience is going to take a great deal more than throwing some older Jocks - albeit, talented ones - back on the air along with expanding and tweaking the playlist.

It will take a great deal more than offering an abundance of "local" content or by sharing the social calendars at the nursing homes ("Fort Fogies"). It will take a great deal more than having the talent move about the community trading dental cream stories and plastic underwear tips.

Communicating to this audience is frought with dangers. Doing it poorly would have the same affect as trying to pal up with a rattlesnake - before de-fanging it. We (those of us in the boomer category) have been patronised and insulted by what is thrown out of the radio for so long, we might just turn on and snarl at the kid selling girl guide cookies.

Since we are discussing a portion of the market that represents almost half of the possible listenership and most of the money, were a station to do this thing properly - the rewards would be stupendous.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby RationalKeith » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:42 am

There are many covers of oldies, some by groups from Canada, Red Robinson and CISL in general use them.

Even KIXI plays a recent ON group called "Wednesday".

I shake my head at the CanCon notion - did the US reject news anchors from Canada? Did they reject Celine Dion, who spends a lot of time performing in Las Vegas? Obviously they did not.

Canadians have an inferiority complex.

Red Robinson is against CanCon, IIRC his rationale is that it limited Canadian artists.

Then there was CKLW from Windsor ON, huge audience south of the border (Detroit especially).
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby YesterDaze » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:50 pm

RationalKeith wrote:....Then there was CKLW from Windsor ON, huge audience south of the border (Detroit especially).
And CKLW's dominance of Detroit ended almost simultaneous with the imposition of the CanCon rules.

Was that a coincidence?
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby radiofan » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:41 pm

YesterDaze wrote:
RationalKeith wrote:....Then there was CKLW from Windsor ON, huge audience south of the border (Detroit especially).
And CKLW's dominance of Detroit ended almost simultaneous with the imposition of the CanCon rules.

Was that a coincidence?


Can-Con eventually killed CKLW AM and moving the format to FM (as well as an attempt at an FM Oldies format) failed because of the totally uneven playing field casusd by the CRT's bullshit FM regs.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.
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Re: No one catering to boomers

Postby jon » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:20 pm

I had always believed that CanCon killed CKLW, but I have read some fairly convincing arguments to the contrary.

Most of those arguments revolve around a declining quality of Management and/or Owner support for the station. Baton bought the station from RKO at the end of 1970, in a sale forced by the CRTC, just before CanCon kicked in. Ratings certainly didn't immediately crash and burn, but two events a few years later certainly hurt the station:
  • 1974 - a move to an Adult Top 40 format
  • 1975 - CRTC extending CanCon concepts to commercials, even those for U.S. companies
Less well documented are the plugging of loopholes in CanCon that CKLW had been exploiting.
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